When now we have a customer support concern with a financial institution, credit score union, or fintech as we speak, we regularly method it with some trepidation. So many organizations present a poor expertise that’s painful and irritating for his or her prospects. However now we have the expertise now for customer support to be distinctive.
My subsequent visitor on the Fintech One-on-One podcast is Dan Michaeli, the CEO and Co-Founding father of Glia. They’ve expertise that may make customer support extraordinary each time and they’re 100% targeted on monetary companies.
On this podcast you’ll be taught:
- The founding story of Glia.
- The three core elements of digital customer support.
- What banks and credit score unions do properly relating to digital customer support.
- What they’re doing poorly.
- The core piece that fintechs get unsuitable.
- How Glia’s name heart providing works.
- How they transition from a web based chat to a reside individual.
- What they’re doing with automation.
- Dan’s ideas on ChatGPT and its relevance to what they provide.
- What the early days of the pandemic have been like for Glia.
- Why they established a CUSO (Credit score Union Service Group).
- The geographic footprint of Glia.
- The dimensions they’re at as we speak.
- His imaginative and prescient for the way forward for buyer interactions.
Join with Dan on LinkedIn
Join with Glia on LinkedIn
Obtain a PDF transcript of Dan Michaeli HERE, or Learn the Full Textual content Model under.
FINTECH ONE-ON-ONE PODCAST – DAN MICHAELI
Welcome to the Fintech One-on-One Podcast. That is Peter Renton, Chairman & Co-Founding father of Fintech Nexus.
I’ve been doing these exhibits since 2013 which makes this the longest-running one-on-one interview present in all of fintech, thanks for becoming a member of me on this journey. For those who like this podcast, it’s best to take a look at our sister exhibits, PitchIt, the Fintech Startups Podcast with Todd Anderson and Fintech Espresso Break with Isabelle Castro or you possibly can take heed to every little thing we produce by subscribing to the Fintech Nexus podcast channel.
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Peter Renton: In the present day on the present I’m delighted to welcome Dan Michaeli, he’s the CEO & Co-Founding father of Glia. Now, Glia is targeted on digital customer support, they’re particularly focusing on monetary companies as a result of, let’s face it, how many individuals, I believe everyone listening to this has most likely has most likely had a horror story after they’re making an attempt to interact within the customer support of a financial institution or perhaps a fintech, for that matter, the place they’re not getting their solutions they need, it’s taking ceaselessly, they should repeat themselves to a name heart operator, it actually seems like we’re nonetheless again within the twentieth century typically relating to customer support.
Properly, what Glia’s all about is making that an built-in, automated manner of coping with prospects for fintechs, for banks to cope with prospects in an optimum manner, in a manner that they wish to be handled. We undergo precisely what which means and the way it all works, we additionally discuss in regards to the ChatGPT and Conversational AI, we discuss in regards to the pandemic and the way digital customer support all of a sudden grew to become entrance and heart for monetary companies and what that was like. We discuss their group changing into a CUSO, a Credit score Union Service Group, we discuss their geographic footprint and rather more. It was a captivating dialogue; hope you benefit from the present.
Welcome to the podcast, Dan!
Dan Michaeli: Hello, how are you, Peter? Thanks for having me.
Peter: I’m doing nice, you’re welcome. So, let’s get began by giving the listeners a bit of little bit of background, now I do know you’ve been doing Glia for a very long time, however inform us a bit of bit about kind of your background of your profession.
Dan: I began my profession in enterprise capital after which I moved into technique consulting the place I labored with loads of companies that have been dealing with, you realize, the very issues that we search to sort out as we speak with our platform, so it was a simple transition to make as soon as we recognized that downside, however, primarily, my background is in enterprise capital expertise after which strategic consulting.
Peter: Okay. So, was it in that strategic consulting function that you simply noticed the issue? Perhaps inform us a bit of bit, flesh that out a bit of bit it for us, inform us the founding story, if you’ll, of Glia.
Dan: You understand, we began our careers particularly targeted on consulting for giant companies throughout a wide range of completely different industries, you realize, from banking (inaudible) to retail and we stored kind of working into the identical downside the place companies that have been established earlier than the appearance of the Web had a really particular problem competing with these companies that have been established after the appearance of the Web, proper. And so, we noticed this time and time once more, nevertheless it grew to become very obvious after we labored with a selected retailer, a really giant Fortune 50 retailer that you’d all be acquainted with. This retailer was struggling to compete with Amazon as loads of retailers even as we speak are struggling and one of many areas that we have been targeted on was how one can optimize their pricing technique, how to consider one of the simplest ways to place the merchandise that have been promoting with a view to achieve market share utilizing that technique.
However my co-founders and I stored asking the query, what about if we as an alternative of specializing in these pricing levers and kind of these very tactical facets of the aggressive technique, why not give it some thought from a buyer expertise sampling, what can we do to empower this kind of extra legacy enterprise to compete on this new age of on-screen prospects, proper. And that’s actually what prompted it, like how can we, if we needed to reinvent the expertise, what would that have appear like as we speak? And so we began sketching out the platform and fascinated by it and as we delved in additional and additional, we mentioned, wow, there’s an actual huge want and a large alternative right here.
Peter: Proper, proper, fascinating, fascinating. So, I used to be researching you guys and I see this time period “digital customer support” used on a regular basis. I can see it, for those who’re watching it on video, you’ll see Digital Buyer Service Summit as your background right here, what do you imply precisely by ”digital customer support?”
Dan: It is a idea of actually three elements coming collectively. It’s on-screen communication, on-screen collaboration, and on-screen automation, proper. So, the power to carry these three collectively in a manner that’s holistic and in a manner that serves a buyer with a digital-first method so assembly them in these digital self-serve journeys. You understand, it could possibly be oh, you realize, I’m going by way of a mortgage utility course of or I’m in my on-line banking portal or I’m utilizing the cellular app, proper, assembly them in these display journeys, proper, and serving the shopper at that time of want is admittedly what digital customer support is all about so it’s reinventing the servicing mannequin for an on-screen world.
Peter: Proper, received you, okay. So then, let’s simply begin with conventional monetary establishments, banks, credit score unions, these kinds of organizations, what are they doing properly or what are they doing badly relating to digital customer support?
Dan: Once I was telling the founding story, I discussed that we have been companies throughout a wide range of verticals and over time, we determined to actually hone in and deal with monetary companies as a result of we felt that the issue was particularly acute on this trade, you realize.
Peter: Proper.
Dan: And so, over the past six or seven years that’s all we’ve targeted on and we’ve developed a deep proficiency on this vertical. And I believe actually, the rationale why we’ve determined to deal with it’s as a result of merchandise are largely commoditized in web monetary companies and actually the connection and the interplay carries a ton of weight, proper. What you possibly can carry and ship to the shopper with an interplay carries a really giant weight when it comes to loyalty and metrics and in order that’s actually the place these FIs are in a position to differentiate. So, with that basis what do they do properly relating to conventional customer support and what don’t they do as properly, I might say, you realize, many monetary establishments perceive that they should present some extent of digital prospects.
They perceive, you realize, hey, hear, I’m placing put all of those digital capabilities for my prospects and my members, I want to satisfy them there someway, proper. I want to offer a way of them having a dialogue, a dialog with me after they have challenges with these digital instruments that I’m offering, proper, be it a portal or an app or a public web site, no matter. I believe what they do properly is that they at the very least have a basic understanding that they should do one thing about it. I believe the large challenges, the place loads of them fail, is that they one, don’t determine digital customer support as greater than a typical reside chat or a chat bot, they assume that’s digital customer support. I’ve received it lined, proper, I’m doing chat with my prospects, I’ve a bot, I’m all set, I’ve received digital customer support, proper.
I believe it’s kind of limiting it to a messaging-focused, very low contact sort of interplay is one space the place they fail after which the second space is connecting it to the broader interplay technique that they’ve with their prospects. How does someone who will get served in a digital interplay, how does that change after they wish to larger contact interplay, how does that change in the event that they wish to discuss to you or after they wish to do video banking, how do these jumps between the several types of interactions occur? That’s the place most FIs don’t have a cohesive method.
Peter: Proper. So, are fintechs doing any higher, do you assume? I imply, clearly, these are corporations that actually have been based within the digital age, you’d assume they might do higher, however what’s your perspective there?
Dan: In some circumstances, sure and in some circumstances, no. I believe what fintechs get unsuitable is that they assume that every little thing could be dealt with in self-serve, proper. So, they are saying oh, you realize, I don’t want an interplay with prospects, I don’t have to have these expensive periods the place I commute, have a two-way change with someone as a result of if I construct my instruments higher, if I ensure that I don’t, if I deflect higher, if I create higher capabilities then I received’t have these interactions occurring.
And I believe that that’s a missed alternative as a result of interactions are literally a few of the Most worthy, if not probably the most beneficial, contact factors you could have with a buyer. So, they do higher within the sense that they’re extra digital-centric and so they’re extra digital-first and they consider these capabilities that leads to an inherently extra trendy method I might say. However they don’t place the identical worth, not all of them, I might say a few of them don’t place the identical worth, on an interplay with the shopper and that’s a missed alternative.
Peter: Proper, okay. So, let’s dig into what you guys truly supply and I wish to discuss this, the Glia Name Middle, which is among the core choices, from what I collect, describe what that’s precisely and the way it works.
Dan: If you wish to take into consideration on the highest stage, Glia is an interplay platform, digital customer support is on the core of that interplay platform, proper. Along with digital customer support, now we have a name heart supply and an automation supply so actually, it’s three pillars that make up that interplay platform. Digital customer support, name heart and automation. These three issues collectively are mixed with what we name a “channel-less structure,” proper, which implies that it doesn’t matter what channel or what mode a buyer desires to make the most of for his or her interactions, they’re all related, they’re all fully related seamlessly, it’s channel-less, they don’t expertise that channel.
So, our name heart supply is a part of our broader interplay platform and it’s very completely different than different name heart expertise that has preceded it. First, it’s constructed to take into consideration that on-screen expertise that I used to be speaking about, so it brings the decision expertise and the display expertise collectively in a very distinctive manner. Second, it supplies a single place that has all of the interactions that you simply’re having with prospects, so all are contained inside the identical platform. And what that means that you can do is to dial-in, no pun meant, to dial-in particularly the place you need that blend of interactions to be, proper. Would you like extra messaging, would you like extra cellphone calls, would you like extra video banking, would you like extra SMS?
When an FI combines these two issues collectively after which, you realize, contains automation, that permits them to actually resolve what’s probably the most environment friendly interplay combine that they need. And, lastly and I believe most significantly, it’s fully targeted on monetary companies so it’s the primary ever name heart platform that solely serves FIs and that’s very completely different, you realize. Traditionally, name facilities are horizontal in nature, you realize, the identical name heart expertise that powers a pet meals firm, you realize, is then bought to an insurance coverage firm or a financial institution, proper. And so they’re very completely different wants whenever you’re in a regulated trade, whenever you’re targeted on a clientele that’s very relationship-driven and targeted. So, I might say, that that could be a actually necessary facet of the Glia Name Middle supply as properly.
Peter: So, let’s simply undergo an instance, if you’ll. So, I’ve downloaded an app, I’m opening up an account, shall we embrace, on an app and there could also be like “chat with us” so I’m beginning to do a chat after which I’m getting pissed off as a result of I’m not getting the reply from the chat bot, typically the chats are actually fairly rudimentary and typically they’re higher. However then, I presume what occurs together with your system is then they are saying, proper, would you like a name to a reside individual? Or perhaps you possibly can clarify it, simply run us by way of an instance like that, like what I’ve described.
Dan: Positive. So, let’s say that I’m a buyer, you realize, I’m making an attempt to determine what’s unsuitable with a selected transaction that I see on an announcement or I’m making an attempt to use for a mortgage. In the beginning, the system would detect what I’m making an attempt to do. So, it could anticipate what my query goes to be, proper, I see that you simply’re combating X relatively than saying, how could I allow you to, proper, it’s very irritating when that occurs, you realize, you’d relatively begin, be predictive, be anticipatory. So, as soon as it detects what I’m doing which is a crucial element of an interplay platform then it’ll supply me the suitable help.
So, it could say, perhaps it’s a chat bot in that state of affairs, however perhaps it needs to be immediately escalated to a video banking session, for example, proper. I don’t know, it is determined by what journey that the shopper is on and what they’re combating, how beneficial that buyer is, how beneficial that interplay is, proper, it is determined by a wide range of elements, however the system is clever sufficient to pre-route the place that interplay goes to go. Now, it’s necessary to know that if that interplay does go, does begin with a decrease contact or digital help, proper, the place it’s entering into by way of with a digital agent, a chat bot, if it begins there after which the necessity turns into extra complicated, you want to have the ability to escalate in a short time out of that and the shopper ought to by no means understand a distinction between the interplay, proper.
It ought to instantly switch to the human agent that’s now chatting with you, the human agent ought to have full visibility into what you simply lined with the chat bot and also you shouldn’t have to begin another time, proper. So, I see that you simply have been speaking with, you realize, our bot about X, Y or Z, I see that you simply received caught right here, I believe that the following greatest step can be this, do you agree? It could instantly anticipate that. Then if the individual then says, you realize, I believe it’s going to be simpler if we simply discuss this out as a result of it’s much more difficult than that, with a single press of the button you’d be speaking to that individual, to not one other individual, not having to begin once more, not having to dial a cellphone quantity after which go away the digital journey. However actually having a dialog like we’re having now by way of the display that permits me to then resolve the problem with the individual I used to be already discussing it with, proper.
So, at that time you’ve gone from a fundamental digital assistant interplay all the best way as much as a human excessive contact interplay that’s occurring in your display, in your phrases, after which if that individual desires to introduce co-browsing or display sharing to information you thru the completion so that you simply don’t should name once more, that might be one thing else that they may carry into the interplay. They might say hey, let me present you how one can resolve that, let’s spend one other minute so that you simply received’t have this concern sooner or later and thanks a lot for doing enterprise with us. And so, in the end, these are the varieties of interactions that we energy. That channel-less, seamless, frictionless expertise, you realize, that prospects actually count on of us. They don’t get these experiences fairly often.
Peter: No. (laughs)
Dan: That may truly begin changing into the rule relatively than the exception if now we have something to do with it.
Peter: Proper, proper. You talked about automation as properly, is there another piece that you simply do within the background, or inform me what you imply whenever you say automation.
Dan: Yeah. So, I imply, now we have a wide range of capabilities round automation, now we have digital assistants that function, now we have turnkey options for FIs that function both inside unauthenticated or authenticated digital experiences, now we have out of the field chat bots successfully, which are very simple to deploy inside these typical journeys for an FI, proper. We even have an AI administration platform that means that you can create these seamless hyperlinks, like some FIs have already got, bots that they’ve constructed, proper, and so they wish to join it to the human escalation in a very seamless manner.
Now we have a layer that permits current bots, if FIs should not utilizing those that we offer, to hook up with the human expertise to allow them to create that, you realize, that very seamless journey, now we have voice automation as properly. So, now we have a collection, once I discuss that as considered one of our three core elements, bear in mind, I discussed digital customer support name heart and automation. Automation encompasses loads of completely different automation capabilities that may be deployed in accordance with the best worth of that use case or the best way to ship the best worth for that use case.
Peter: Proper, proper. So then, I’d love to speak about Conversational AI and within the context of ChatGPT which has clearly taken the world by storm within the final three months, what are your ideas on the capabilities that OpenAI, the group behind ChatGPT, they’re bringing to the desk. Is that this one thing that has direct relevance to what you’re doing or is it actually separate?
Dan: Look, it’s actually spectacular expertise. Once you have a look at what’s wanted for an enterprise resolution, it’s not probably the most applicable for an FI to make the most of, proper, with prospects. There are makes use of of it that are wonderful like, for instance. facilitating a few of the agent-facing capabilities, proper, offering automation to the brokers as a result of they will then examine in and see what sorts of strategies and what sort of textual content is being generated, they will confirm it. However ChatGPT is a general-purpose system, it’s a big language mannequin that’s skilled on a large quantity of normal information from the Web, proper. So, it understands and generates responses on the fly based mostly on that very giant information set.
However an FI has no management over what sort of strategies it’s making, proper, these could be very unsuitable and whenever you’re an FI and also you’re a regulated enterprise you possibly can’t afford to be unsuitable like that, proper. You will have to have the ability to confirm what the mannequin is producing to manage it, to include your individual product and have a platform that manages the responses. You understand that you simply wish to present to prospects these responses should be vetted and confirmed by your establishment, proper. So, it’s a really spectacular, giant language mannequin and it has extremely applicability, I might say, because it pertains particularly to buyer interactions inside monetary companies or regulated industries, you simply want a special sort of resolution, you want a way more enterprise-grade controllable, targeted providing. So, that’s my reflection on that.
Peter: You’re specializing in monetary companies, does that imply that your Conversational AI chat bot brings with it some specialised data that clearly a ChatGPT wouldn’t have? I imply, if I’m on a chat bot with an airline versus I’m on a chat bot with a financial institution, perhaps considered one of your prospects, what’s the distinction in functionality there?
Dan: You ask a chat bot, for instance, what’s the rate of interest for my journey rewards Visa account, how is a chat bot going to reply that query if it’s a generalized, normal function sort of chat bot, proper?
Peter: Proper.
Dan: So, what Glia’s offering is over 800 completely different turnkey responses and consumer aim, proper, that may be tailor-made to the particular language that the FI desires to make use of with their prospects. And it additionally applies a big language mannequin that we’ve constructed round all the completely different establishments that we’ve labored with over a big time frame. You understand, we made that acquisition final 12 months of Finn AI as a result of that’s what we wish to do, that’s what we noticed. We noticed an amazing quantity of worth in that enormous language mannequin. You understand, you want specialize relating to serving prospects and being very particular in dealing with inquiries with what you are promoting, proper. You wish to ensure that that’s correct, vetted and an amazing expertise and so that you want an enterprise grade resolution that focuses on a selected sort of inquiries or in a selected vertical, if that is sensible.
Peter: Acquired you, yeah, that is sensible. So, I wish to take, return three years in the past – we’re initially of the pandemic and all of a sudden banks notice that their branches are closed, and so they’ve been mandated to be closed, and so they nonetheless want to offer customer support. I think about this was one thing that actually was a large boon for you guys, inform us a bit of bit about what was it like making an attempt to sort of navigate this sudden onslaught of banks realizing, oh my God, we’ve received to have digital customer support.
Dan: It was an fascinating time, you realize, I believe that we have been very lucky to be ready to assist FIs. We had prospects and prospects that have been struggling and considerably throughout this time and, you realize, we’ve been working for a few years to offer a platform that was simple and had a really quick time to worth and was pleasant for the managers, for the enterprise, for the brokers, for the shopper, you realize, we positioned loads of emphasis on expertise. I imply, frankly, you realize, after we began the corporate, we didn’t have a customer support background, we didn’t have a buyer expertise background, we targeted particularly on what’s the greatest, if we may think about simply the perfect expertise attainable, what would that be for everyone concerned and that’s what guided the creation of the platform.
So, the rationale why I carry this us up is in the end our platform is essentially completely different and essentially quicker than what’s on the market and we have been very lucky that that was the case when COVID hit as a result of we had the chance to make migrations occur in a matter of hours for our prospects, proper. My brokers can’t take calls from their dwelling as a result of the system is on Prem, are you able to assist us? Positive, you realize, right here you go, you’re lively now with Glia Name Middle, proper, and we did it, you realize, in a pinch for everyone and we fearful about charging and figuring that out later as a result of we wished to assist them, you realize.
As corporations approached us, we simply felt very lucky that we had the capabilities that they have been searching for to take care of these necessary interactions with their prospects and to assist them nonetheless really feel related and practical to have the ability to do enterprise in a manner that they felt pleased with, relatively than in a manner that felt like a patchwork or like a, you realize, a band support to an issue. You understand, they have been in a position to create significant differentiation, significant benefit throughout that point after they labored with Glia, that implied loads of late nights, loads of laborious work and also you’re coping with loads of, such as you mentioned, loads of inflow directly, you realize.
Peter: Proper, proper, I can’t even think about what that was like. I wish to change to one thing that you simply not too long ago introduced and that’s you grew to become a Credit score Union Service Group, a CUSO, and wished to kind of discuss what was concerned there and what was the considering behind that transfer.
Dan: Positive, We established the CUSO as a result of we had a wide range of our prospects approaching us asking if they may put money into Glia, proper, so we serve loads of credit score unions. Once we raised our final financing spherical early final 12 months, we handed a $1 Billion valuation, it was a giant second for the corporate. We made that announcement, and it was the primary time we had introduced valuation publicly. You understand, whenever you move that milestone, it’s an thrilling one for the corporate so we felt compelled to share that and so as soon as we did that loads of our purchasers approached us saying, hey, we might like to…is there a chance to take a position?
We had considered it previously, however by no means actually pursued it, however as we sort of checked out it extra carefully we mentioned, you realize, perhaps there’s something actually fascinating right here as a result of if we deal with fundraising, particularly for making a neighborhood relatively than for operations then this could possibly be actually price it. So, we had simply raised, we didn’t want the cash for working, however we thought it could be actually fascinating to do it to create a neighborhood round credit score unions which are exceptionally member-focused and which are massive believers in what Glia is doing and that’s precisely what we did, and you realize, it’s been an unimaginable expertise. The credit score unions that participated have develop into wonderful advisors to the corporate and so they’re additionally sharing greatest practices in creating and serving to us construct increasingly of that kind of member interplay neighborhood, I might say.
Peter: And so, is a CUSO, is it a non-profit, like credit score unions are clearly all non-profit, does that imply that CUSO is definitely non-profit as properly or how does that work?
Dan: CUSO is a designation for a company that serves credit score unions so it’s a particular designation.
Peter: Did you create a brand new group or is that this one thing that you simply simply grew to become otherwise you added?
Dan: You are able to do it in each methods, you are able to do it in each methods. You are able to do one thing new, or you possibly can designate your self as a Credit score Union Service Group.
Peter: Proper, proper, okay. So, transferring on, I wish to discuss geographic footprints. I do know you’ve not too long ago, I believe, expanded into Latin America, however what’s the geographic footprint of Glia as we speak?
Dan: You understand, we primarily serve North America, however we’ve actually began accelerating our go-to-market technique in Latin America. Now we have a really quickly rising Latin American buyer base and that area’s actually thrilling, you realize, there’s loads of urge for food for these applied sciences within the area, we’ve seen unimaginable progress over the past two years in that area. We even have many consumers in Europe as properly, however Latin America has been rising in a short time for us.
Peter: Proper, proper. We discover Latin America to be a really thrilling place within the fintech area, a lot innovation occurring and so many new corporations which are beginning to get scale. Okay, you talked about changing into a unicorn, however are you able to give us some sense of the dimensions you guys are at as we speak as in, you realize, variety of organizations, worker head rely, that kind of factor.
Dan: We don’t disclose these figures as a result of we’re a personal firm, however I’ll let you know that we, like I discussed, we handed $1 Billion valuation, we raised over $150 Million to this point. You understand, now we have, at this level, over 400 prospects so that ought to offer you a normal sense of scale, I might say.
Peter: Yep, yep, that’s nice. So then, final query, digital customer support, it seems like we nonetheless have a protracted solution to go, like if I’m speaking to even one of many prime 4 banks on this nation, it’s fairly horrible, digital customer support expertise that I get. So, the capabilities at the moment are there to have an amazing expertise, what’s your imaginative and prescient for the longer term, not simply of Glia however of digital prospects service, generally.
Dan: My imaginative and prescient for the way forward for buyer interactions let’s say, generally, is that the expertise that I described earlier than, that seamlessness, that anticipating in context, you realize, actually elegant sort of interplay, that sort of expertise needs to be the rule and never the exception, proper. It shouldn’t be uncommon for me to expertise one thing so exceptional. It needs to be uncommon once I don’t expertise one thing so exceptional. And I believe that’s the place we have to get to as a result of there’s loads of inertia that’s attributable to kind of the legacy gamers within the area, I might say, as a result of they need issues finished a sure manner.
They need fashions which are anchored on cellphone calls and targeted on the cellphone, you realize, relatively than fascinated by how can we take those self same interactions and make them one thing actually fascinating and completely different and beneficial for each side. How will we take the amount of interactions and alter it in order that it’s extra future proof it’s extra trendy, it feels extra according to what prospects count on as we speak from the interactions as companies? So, briefly, I might say that actually it’s how can we make these high-quality contextual interactions the norm, the mainstream? That’s the imaginative and prescient.
Peter: Okay, I’ll sit up for that day as a result of it’s nonetheless fairly irritating loads of instances. So, anyway, Dan, actually nice to speak with you, admire you approaching the present as we speak. Better of luck.
Dan: Pleasure, Peter, thanks once more.
Peter: For those who just like the present, please go forward and provides it a assessment on the podcast platform of your selection and you should definitely inform your mates and colleagues about it.
Anyway, on that word, I’ll log out. I very a lot admire your listening, and I’ll catch you subsequent time. Bye.
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